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	<title>Comments on: Done With Diku?</title>
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	<link>http://pumpingirony.net/2009/06/10/done-with-diku/</link>
	<description>Me, My Virtual Self, and I</description>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://pumpingirony.net/2009/06/10/done-with-diku/comment-page-1/#comment-2654</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumpingirony.net/?p=574#comment-2654</guid>
		<description>I was disappointed with Too Human. I liked Eternal Darkness, but TH has some of the same exact problems and they feel less forgivable now. Weird animation, odd jumps in story, repetitive enemies, combat I don&#039;t feel connected to, strange human character models, etc.

I really tried to like it, but I couldn&#039;t.

I was in the Aion beta and, really, I don&#039;t see what the fuss is over that one haha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was disappointed with Too Human. I liked Eternal Darkness, but TH has some of the same exact problems and they feel less forgivable now. Weird animation, odd jumps in story, repetitive enemies, combat I don&#8217;t feel connected to, strange human character models, etc.</p>
<p>I really tried to like it, but I couldn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>I was in the Aion beta and, really, I don&#8217;t see what the fuss is over that one haha.</p>
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		<title>By: Longasc</title>
		<link>http://pumpingirony.net/2009/06/10/done-with-diku/comment-page-1/#comment-2617</link>
		<dc:creator>Longasc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumpingirony.net/?p=574#comment-2617</guid>
		<description>I am also quite burned out of DIKU-MUDs. You mentioned it, I have exactly the same reason to feel bored by Aion before I even think about installing it.

Interestingly, I also regularly return to Guild Wars. I wonder why they do not make a game more in the SWG/Ultima Online style, I definitely like this more sandbox-approach better than LevelQuest with &quot;endgame&quot; problems.

Regarding the Underworld, you can &quot;borrow&quot; some Heroes from friends. Take a Spirit Spammer Hero with you, the new &quot;spirit wall builds&quot; are so strong that ONE of them alone is able to clear Aatxes, Smite Crawlers and even do some of the quests.

One of my worries with GW is that they somehow have a &quot;back to the MMO roots&quot; trend, which means a bit borrowing features from the standard DIKU formula and WoW. I am constantly worried about GW2.

Right now I am playing the offline game Mount &amp; Blade, it gives me the medieval thrill that most MMOs lack nowadays. At least for me MMO spoilt kid. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am also quite burned out of DIKU-MUDs. You mentioned it, I have exactly the same reason to feel bored by Aion before I even think about installing it.</p>
<p>Interestingly, I also regularly return to Guild Wars. I wonder why they do not make a game more in the SWG/Ultima Online style, I definitely like this more sandbox-approach better than LevelQuest with &#8220;endgame&#8221; problems.</p>
<p>Regarding the Underworld, you can &#8220;borrow&#8221; some Heroes from friends. Take a Spirit Spammer Hero with you, the new &#8220;spirit wall builds&#8221; are so strong that ONE of them alone is able to clear Aatxes, Smite Crawlers and even do some of the quests.</p>
<p>One of my worries with GW is that they somehow have a &#8220;back to the MMO roots&#8221; trend, which means a bit borrowing features from the standard DIKU formula and WoW. I am constantly worried about GW2.</p>
<p>Right now I am playing the offline game Mount &amp; Blade, it gives me the medieval thrill that most MMOs lack nowadays. At least for me MMO spoilt kid. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Sente</title>
		<link>http://pumpingirony.net/2009/06/10/done-with-diku/comment-page-1/#comment-2605</link>
		<dc:creator>Sente</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumpingirony.net/?p=574#comment-2605</guid>
		<description>While I do agree in spirit with what you are saying, I think there is also a problem with the term Diku itself. When does a Diku-type MMO stop becoming Diku-type? There were lots of variations of MUDs which were based on the original DikuMUD code base, some reimplemented from other MUD-type systems.

I do not think there is a black&amp;white situation here, rather some kind of sliding scale. 

What  I can say is that I tend to get tired of games where gaining xp and loot through fighting is the primary motivational factor, especially if it is dragged out long in time.

With other motivations being the primary driving force, I can still deal with the gameplay mechanics often.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I do agree in spirit with what you are saying, I think there is also a problem with the term Diku itself. When does a Diku-type MMO stop becoming Diku-type? There were lots of variations of MUDs which were based on the original DikuMUD code base, some reimplemented from other MUD-type systems.</p>
<p>I do not think there is a black&amp;white situation here, rather some kind of sliding scale. </p>
<p>What  I can say is that I tend to get tired of games where gaining xp and loot through fighting is the primary motivational factor, especially if it is dragged out long in time.</p>
<p>With other motivations being the primary driving force, I can still deal with the gameplay mechanics often.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://pumpingirony.net/2009/06/10/done-with-diku/comment-page-1/#comment-2601</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumpingirony.net/?p=574#comment-2601</guid>
		<description>I find myself fading too quickly at DikuMMOs these days as well, hence a large chunk of this post. I nearly always get 360 games with multiplayer or especially co-op; it&#039;s so much more fun and rewarding.

I&#039;ll shoot ya a msg on XBL though, I&#039;m always up for co-op adventures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find myself fading too quickly at DikuMMOs these days as well, hence a large chunk of this post. I nearly always get 360 games with multiplayer or especially co-op; it&#8217;s so much more fun and rewarding.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll shoot ya a msg on XBL though, I&#8217;m always up for co-op adventures.</p>
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		<title>By: Hudson</title>
		<link>http://pumpingirony.net/2009/06/10/done-with-diku/comment-page-1/#comment-2590</link>
		<dc:creator>Hudson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumpingirony.net/?p=574#comment-2590</guid>
		<description>LOL Scott. Just got around to finding your comment on my Feb post where you threadmanced my Too Human blog entry

I FINALLY got back on XBOX Live and now I have forgotten which Avatar is yours as well, but I got the dashboard update and I am good to go now. 

I will give Too Human another try and possible go with a ranged character this time around.

I tend to fade fast on XBOX 360 games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL Scott. Just got around to finding your comment on my Feb post where you threadmanced my Too Human blog entry</p>
<p>I FINALLY got back on XBOX Live and now I have forgotten which Avatar is yours as well, but I got the dashboard update and I am good to go now. </p>
<p>I will give Too Human another try and possible go with a ranged character this time around.</p>
<p>I tend to fade fast on XBOX 360 games.</p>
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		<title>By: Geekzor</title>
		<link>http://pumpingirony.net/2009/06/10/done-with-diku/comment-page-1/#comment-2568</link>
		<dc:creator>Geekzor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 23:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumpingirony.net/?p=574#comment-2568</guid>
		<description>After a very entertaining evening in Urgoz&#039;s warren in GW tonight I came away feeling like you that co-ops rather than MMOGs may be the way to go. Raiding in AoC became more like &#039;homework&#039;...back from work just in time to attend that raid I signed up for with the slim chance of getting that epic lewt, having a great team but fully conscious that being late or having to leave is letting the other 23 people down, at the end of the day I&#039;m just not that &#039;hardcore&#039;. I game alot but when it starts to feel like work it loses its fun.

While i dont like the strict linear pathing and the total reliance on instancing that GW uses, as a co-op it&#039;s a damn good piece of work, I&#039;m hoping they can retain that co-op feel in a more persistent and dynamic world in GW2 and I really hope they dont decide to go down the road of large raid groups, the current &#039;elite&#039; missions with a max of 12 allow for a flexible enough approach, 12 is far easier to organise or even PUG *shudder*.

We do become less outward looking once weve found a solid social circle in the virtual world, socialising becomes more limited in order to build that effective group of players who work well together as a team, in terms of PvE we rarely need to look beyond our immediate clique, alliances become useful when populations dwindle or some form of  mass PvP is involved. Becoming insular isnt a bad thing, I could argue it&#039;s the most effective way to spend your online game time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After a very entertaining evening in Urgoz&#8217;s warren in GW tonight I came away feeling like you that co-ops rather than MMOGs may be the way to go. Raiding in AoC became more like &#8216;homework&#8217;&#8230;back from work just in time to attend that raid I signed up for with the slim chance of getting that epic lewt, having a great team but fully conscious that being late or having to leave is letting the other 23 people down, at the end of the day I&#8217;m just not that &#8216;hardcore&#8217;. I game alot but when it starts to feel like work it loses its fun.</p>
<p>While i dont like the strict linear pathing and the total reliance on instancing that GW uses, as a co-op it&#8217;s a damn good piece of work, I&#8217;m hoping they can retain that co-op feel in a more persistent and dynamic world in GW2 and I really hope they dont decide to go down the road of large raid groups, the current &#8216;elite&#8217; missions with a max of 12 allow for a flexible enough approach, 12 is far easier to organise or even PUG *shudder*.</p>
<p>We do become less outward looking once weve found a solid social circle in the virtual world, socialising becomes more limited in order to build that effective group of players who work well together as a team, in terms of PvE we rarely need to look beyond our immediate clique, alliances become useful when populations dwindle or some form of  mass PvP is involved. Becoming insular isnt a bad thing, I could argue it&#8217;s the most effective way to spend your online game time.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://pumpingirony.net/2009/06/10/done-with-diku/comment-page-1/#comment-2565</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumpingirony.net/?p=574#comment-2565</guid>
		<description>Thanks everyone. Well, except the little child who could have Googled &quot;DIKU&quot; in less time than it takes this server to load up the comment page for his trolling... But I digress...

@Openedge: The Commando doesn&#039;t work like a &quot;regular&quot; shooter, no, it&#039;s an RPG after all. But you get to stand back and blast things and move your lock-in-reticule around with much more precision (usually). And it actually does uber damage, where trying to use guns on the melee classes is just for laughs. I actually love the visuals, the whole cybernetic fantasy gods thing I thought was pretty cool, but I wish it had more diverse terrain. At the end of the day, you&#039;re always heading down a linear hallway, it just has different textures than the previous ones.

@Everyone: I think I&#039;ll just have to use the old mantra &quot;variety is the spice of life&quot; from now on. I just don&#039;t think I have it in me to do yet another Diku game when I&#039;ve done so many already. And I have real problems with the Diku version of &quot;levels&quot; (read Raph&#039;s article on that) and each new Diku game I try out winds up exacerbating my attitude toward them.

Consider this: many (most?) of us enjoy MMOGs in particular because they more or less feel more &quot;alive.&quot; We have the opportunity to socialize, it can be neat just to see other characters running about in the world and you know there&#039;s a real player behind them. Occasionally we have the opportunity to do a random heal or buff on a stranger as we pass by. But otherwise, it feels like we&#039;ve all become very insular. We only *really* play with our friends/guild/static group. Everyone else is just &quot;out there.&quot; If that attitude or behavior is true, then do we really need a MMOG specifically if the ultimate goal is to have FUN? At this point I&#039;m looking forward to more co-op RPGs like Borderlands than I am MMOGs...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks everyone. Well, except the little child who could have Googled &#8220;DIKU&#8221; in less time than it takes this server to load up the comment page for his trolling&#8230; But I digress&#8230;</p>
<p>@Openedge: The Commando doesn&#8217;t work like a &#8220;regular&#8221; shooter, no, it&#8217;s an RPG after all. But you get to stand back and blast things and move your lock-in-reticule around with much more precision (usually). And it actually does uber damage, where trying to use guns on the melee classes is just for laughs. I actually love the visuals, the whole cybernetic fantasy gods thing I thought was pretty cool, but I wish it had more diverse terrain. At the end of the day, you&#8217;re always heading down a linear hallway, it just has different textures than the previous ones.</p>
<p>@Everyone: I think I&#8217;ll just have to use the old mantra &#8220;variety is the spice of life&#8221; from now on. I just don&#8217;t think I have it in me to do yet another Diku game when I&#8217;ve done so many already. And I have real problems with the Diku version of &#8220;levels&#8221; (read Raph&#8217;s article on that) and each new Diku game I try out winds up exacerbating my attitude toward them.</p>
<p>Consider this: many (most?) of us enjoy MMOGs in particular because they more or less feel more &#8220;alive.&#8221; We have the opportunity to socialize, it can be neat just to see other characters running about in the world and you know there&#8217;s a real player behind them. Occasionally we have the opportunity to do a random heal or buff on a stranger as we pass by. But otherwise, it feels like we&#8217;ve all become very insular. We only *really* play with our friends/guild/static group. Everyone else is just &#8220;out there.&#8221; If that attitude or behavior is true, then do we really need a MMOG specifically if the ultimate goal is to have FUN? At this point I&#8217;m looking forward to more co-op RPGs like Borderlands than I am MMOGs&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: openedge1</title>
		<link>http://pumpingirony.net/2009/06/10/done-with-diku/comment-page-1/#comment-2564</link>
		<dc:creator>openedge1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumpingirony.net/?p=574#comment-2564</guid>
		<description>I really was feeling the same way as you...then I took that big break last year.
I think it helped me learn how to play these games again..

I am now getting more variety though, and plan to break it up every once in a while.
But, I wish the DIKU would try to be different...and until then, I will be pretty selective.

Now as to Too Human, I had issues with the controls myself..(that and well, the visuals seem blah)...but if it is cheap, this sounds good..
So, the Commando works like a regular shooter? COOL!

Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really was feeling the same way as you&#8230;then I took that big break last year.<br />
I think it helped me learn how to play these games again..</p>
<p>I am now getting more variety though, and plan to break it up every once in a while.<br />
But, I wish the DIKU would try to be different&#8230;and until then, I will be pretty selective.</p>
<p>Now as to Too Human, I had issues with the controls myself..(that and well, the visuals seem blah)&#8230;but if it is cheap, this sounds good..<br />
So, the Commando works like a regular shooter? COOL!</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://pumpingirony.net/2009/06/10/done-with-diku/comment-page-1/#comment-2563</link>
		<dc:creator>Tesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumpingirony.net/?p=574#comment-2563</guid>
		<description>John, you *could* look it up.  I&#039;ve heard about these fancy internet things called &quot;search engines&quot;.  Even Microsoft has one now!

Scott, welcome indeed.  I&#039;m even just about burned out on trying to find ways to make MMOs better.  I&#039;m recovering with some Tactics Ogre.  Mmm... Tactics...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, you *could* look it up.  I&#8217;ve heard about these fancy internet things called &#8220;search engines&#8221;.  Even Microsoft has one now!</p>
<p>Scott, welcome indeed.  I&#8217;m even just about burned out on trying to find ways to make MMOs better.  I&#8217;m recovering with some Tactics Ogre.  Mmm&#8230; Tactics&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://pumpingirony.net/2009/06/10/done-with-diku/comment-page-1/#comment-2562</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumpingirony.net/?p=574#comment-2562</guid>
		<description>Hey idiot.....when you write your little essays...take in consideration not everyone is a mmorpg nerd and automaticaslly knows what &quot;DIKU&quot; means.   Not everyone has ZERO life like you so dont be such a nerd as not even explain your terms.  Sheesh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey idiot&#8230;..when you write your little essays&#8230;take in consideration not everyone is a mmorpg nerd and automaticaslly knows what &#8220;DIKU&#8221; means.   Not everyone has ZERO life like you so dont be such a nerd as not even explain your terms.  Sheesh.</p>
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